Legal Force and Violence was the main topic today
-questioned what is violence and if violence is ok in some cases
-came to a conclusion that violence is not on set definition that it is the persons own
opinion and also that there is many different degrees of violence
-the legal force bonds between partners, the police or fire fighters, the "thin blue line" where they stick together because they don't want a partner who's like a family member to them to get hurt
then we moved onto violence within the legal force and questioned if there could be a society without violence
-really asking for a perfect world, which was also discussed and there is just no way for a perfect world to exist so there is going to always be violence but per say do we need the cops can there be like a local committee force where they can protect themselves and have their on rules or enforce their own "socially effected norms"
- a few was that this has been done is be shunning down on someone like for
the Muslims, or the group could make the criminal an outcast, or there is the
small town ways with the neighborhood rules that people must follow or
someone bigger than you will but the crap out of you.
But these ways do not work very much anymore, America is going farther away from the neighborly ways and having less close communities. So in order to keep peace formally laws must be made and enforced.
There is two famous legal positives who debated these issues
1.) John Austin - He believed law is a command of a sovereign that subjects of the sovereign are in the habit of obeying because the sovereign backs up commad with violence
-this is like one person leading and everyone under that persons going to listen to
him/her because they know if they don't they are going to get the shit beat at of
them, and that's pretty much what he thought
2.) HLA Hart- Where he thought that there are primary rules, rules that are in the society but with in a complex society there needs to be secondary rules which are the governing of how we make, interpret, and enforce those rules
To sum it up: all law is threatened by violence, but if your in the system, following the rules you will not experience the violence; however, once you step out of the system your pretty much doomed.

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